I've got an alternative for everybody, it's not my own idea but I thought it was very good, it was a response offered to my singing Obamas praises for opening up the American healthcare system, and on the other hand whinging about National's proposed benefit changes. The harsh response fell back on an important element that I think gets lost in all the idealism of the 21st century, the simple point asked of me was; and how do you propose this will all be payed for?
The cold hard truth of it is that while most of us would have no problem with giving a blanketman a dollar to put towards a cheeseburger or his next tinny, there is a line at the number of people that we are willing to provide for.
When a single mother works 3 jobs to provide for her family, does it seem fair that 20% of her income is going to someone with a family of their own who could be providing for them, or worse some 18 year old drongo who can't be bothered going out and getting a real job.
However, I am not willing to give up on the concepts of the dole, free healthcare and family services I simply think that the welfare system requires a more authoritarian streak, this was the method suggested to me.
To bring back conscription.
Don't stop reading, I'm not talking about for the army..
2 year conscription should be compulsary for all citizens, conscription would be carried out in areas of the council sectors such as, rubbishmen, post workers, ward hands and logging workers, there are more I'm sure. During the period of conscription citizens would earn dole wage as well as learning important life skills.
After conscription an idividual would be free to seek whatever career he/she decides however if at any time they wish to go on the dole they must return to conscription for as long as they are claiming government money.(obviously as long as they were fit to do so).
Hopefully this would cut government expenditure, and perhaps even motivate some of those 18 year old drongos to get of the couch and try to do something with their lives rather than spend the rest of their days as a rubbishbag man.
AANNDD!! best of all our taxes, which would ordinarily be put towards the dole would be going towards the wages of people who were bettering our community in one way or another. There should still be the opportunity of government assistance out there, but only for those who can't help themselves.
First im not an economist or a lawyer or a public policy major but it seems to me that conscription in any way shape or form goes against all democratic ideals whether they be right or wrong. now im not pro dole by any means due mainly to the amount of people who rip tax payers off by taking it for no reason but there really are people who need it and for whatever reason cant work. As far as im aware (and by all means correct me if im wrong) there are limited jobs available for people with no qualifications so what happens to all those people lining up for compulsory jobs making no money in the mean time?
ReplyDeleteit saddens me to say this, but i have to agree with Ellie on this. NZ has an amazing welfare system, which was once envied by other countries, but it just isnt realistic any longer, and some changes have to be made in order to protect those people who are rightfully getting financial support. the idea of conscription might seem a little "non-democratic" to you Ross but what is this opinion based on? i grew up in Germany where conscription is a reality, and therefore grew up with it being a norm. in the many years that i lived there, not once did i hear any complaints.
ReplyDeleteNew Zealand's welfare system, due to its immense financial strain, just isn't practical anymore and amendments to the Social Security Act are necessary. so maybe looking at other states, such as Germany, isn't such a bad idea. it was done when electoral reforms were necessary, and NZ adopted the german model of MMP. so i say to everyone opposing the idea of having compulsory conscription to the public sector, to observe it in practice by looking at states, such as Germany, who have successfully shown the world that conscription is a well thought out and successful scheme to avoid any overspending on the dole.
Following on from Leonie, I think it would be good to look at Germany, where conscription (if the fountain of knowledge that is wikipedia is correct) is for a period of 9 months and there is a choice between military or some alternative civil service.
ReplyDeleteIn my opinion 2 years is way too long, and as for being able to choose to go into the military instead of cleaning up rubbish etc, I would much rather do military service and besides, having some form of choice would probably make an introduction of conscription slightly better accepted -people like choice :)
Ellie, I believe that this conscription idea that you put forth is excellent. However, I would make a few small changes to make it more palatable.
ReplyDeleteFirst, the term 'conscription' conjures images of being drafted into a war against one's will. Maybe calling it a national service program, or even better, a "Patriotic Service Program" would entice people more.
Let me digress briefly: One thing I've learned from years of studying American history is that America is at its best when its people pitch in together for a common cause. Our willingness to ration at home for the sake of our soldiers abroad during World War II, and the outpouring of compassion in the aftermath of 9/11 underscored this assertion.
In the U.S., there is an immense antipathy toward paying taxes, and I believe a big reason for this is that people are detached from the benefits that are brought about by their investment in the greater good. We think of taxes solely as a burden to line the pockets of government officials. But if we could recognize the fruits of our tax dollars (roads, schools, hospitals, etc.), I think our attitude toward taxation would change for the better.
National Service represents an area where we could undoubtedly see the benefit of making an investment in the greater good. I concur with James that having a choice of service would be excellent. A mandate for serving in the Peace Corps, serving in the military, or volunteering in our communities would change our attitudes toward working for others, because if we are all contributing, then service is no longer an abstract notion, but a concrete action.
Obviously, there will be some people who will be unable to serve, but that should not stop the vast majority of us from pitching in for the betterment of humanity.
I think that this is an interesting proposition, however while it looks good in theory I think the practical realities in introducing it New Zealand make it unworkable.
ReplyDeleteYou say that after conscription people would be free to pursue anything they wanted. Does this mean that you are automatically conscripted once you reach a certain age or finish school? This could seriously impact people's further education plans knowing that they are going to hav eto balance compulsory work with Uni. Or what about immigrants to the country? For example a middle age doctor arrives in NZ only to be told that he or she muct do 2 years picking up rubbish as well as paying the highest tax rate while not bludging off others one bit.
If we are to base the model on that of the one in Germany, the state would be required to subsidise conscripted people with things like food and housing. Would this not ultimately have a detrimental affect on NZ as a country? We certainly do not have the same sized economy as Germany.
What happens to the current rubbishmen and post workers? Do they lose their jobs at the expense of some 'drongo' is forced to do it? As Ross mentioned, NZ is founded on some pretty strong democratic principles. To introduce conscription would change the entire constitution. I refuse to accept that all those people on the dole are actively searching for work and cannot find any. So instead of introducing conscription, how about more restrictions on the conditions fo recieving the dole. For example reviewing just how hard they are trying to find a job or reducing the payments over time. Alternatively, incentives could be offered for doing the work that this idea of conscription would force people to do. I think things like tax breaks or susidised healthcare would be a far greater incentive than recieving lousy dole pay. Personally I would be much more inclined to do the work if I didn't have the law forcing me to do it.
So while in theory I think there are good aspects to the idea of conscription, I'm not convinced it could work in NZ. Instead the formula needs to be tinkered with to get people wanting to help instead of having to.
I'm quite a fan of this idea, two things I would include/change to the German model however:
ReplyDelete(1)Conscription would have no gender bias.
(2)Persons entering tertiary education, trade services, even OEs (provided it was of sufficient length to encourage responsibility for ones self) would be exempt.
I don't think our constitution is so inflexible or enshrined in our culture that we would see conscription as that threatening or undemocratic. I agree with the German model option of military or civil service. The length of time I am not quite sure on. A year maybe. Two years does seem a bit much.
I would also like to note there seems to be a bit of international pressure pushing conscription to be scrapped. As well as internal pressure - sounds like it may have been an issue in the 2009 German elections.
Theoretically the idea of conscription is not bad, however I agree with Ross in saying that it does limit some of the rights associated with democracy. Would you yourself be happy to personally complete two years of conscription, especially when you have already got a career path in mind that you would rather work towards instead?
ReplyDeleteAlee, I like the idea of those who are working towards some sort of degree being exempt, however that I believe would not cover those who wish to have ownership of their own business. It has been seen in the past that it is possible for someone with no higher education in business to become one of the highest money earners in the world, take Bill Gates as just one example.
Also it gives restriction to some of the career paths people wish to take afterwards. Industries such as modelling and acting generally have a very small “break through” gap in age if you wish to make it in the industries. Those two years may in fact jeopardise that slight timeframe. Both of these being industries that you don’t necessarily need prior higher education to be involved in.